Comments on G D C S + S W D P: Alligator Juniper 2008 & Why People Don't Read

Why is it that the flagrant commenters are always ...

2008-07-19T13:29:00.000-04:00

Why is it that the flagrant commenters are always anonymous?

Sir, if you think no one is writing work that isn't meant for 'jacking one another off' you honestly just don't know where to look and/or are a product of the school systems that fed you A Separate Peace.

If everything is '100% absolute crap', what are you even fighting for?

Who is/was ever good?

If you are from ULA, which I assume you are based on your rhetoric, the criteria we deem 'good' is highly different and therefore makes further conversation difficult, ie: ULA seems to want literature to be always entertaining on the level of comic books and Bukowski, while I am interested in literature that is both entertaining and progressive.

Thanks for the anonymous warbling, but if you can't do any better than that, keep it in your pants.

Literature is not Vin Diesel.

You make some good points, but I think you miss on...

2008-07-19T09:00:00.000-04:00

You make some good points, but I think you miss one big factor. I love books, I read actively everyday, and usually books from independent presses... I even work in the bookselling industry. The biggest problem I see is that the majority of writing out there is 100% absolute crap, whether it come from a major publishing house or an independent literary journal. This is even more common with the journals, which have basically become an incestuous fraternity where the only readers are writers and everybody sits around jerking each other off and giving pats on the back. The only people who really care about literature are literary people and THAT is the problem. Do the movies just attract film snobs? Do musical acts only appeal to teenage hipsters? (Well, some...in both cases, actually). The fact is that most literature has become culturally irrelevant and it's probably going to stay that way. Just the same that the cinema replaced theatre and television replaced books, something new and as of yet unimagined will come to replace those media eventually. The best part is that nothing is essentially wrong with this. A small portion of the population will find a writer, cherish his/her work, and there is something wholeheartedly beautiful in that. As long as literary folk don't become bloated on grand ideas that everybody should read what they read, we'll be ok. Because when that happens, you become the same Pitchfork hipster shithead that you're bashing in the first place.

free poetry needs to be shoved into the hands of s...

2008-07-18T15:03:00.000-04:00

free poetry needs to be shoved into the hands of strangers and left in restrooms pasted up next to the glory hole

scott, i definitely agree with writers doing more,...

2008-07-18T13:44:00.000-04:00

scott, i definitely agree with writers doing more, though i think there needs to be just as much if not more attention paid to getting people to that reading moment as there does doing new and interesting things with words. most of the people i know arent even open to the idea at all. but maybe there's no way to get those people.

i think effectively marketing and better attention to saying something interesting are vital, rather than the replication of the kind of books that have become 'important'.

I think I see what you mean about instant culture....

2008-07-18T11:25:00.000-04:00

I think I see what you mean about instant culture. it's almost like you can have your art/media without having it lately, without giving away any of your time. Like w/ that new A. Jolie movie, the hitman movie. I saw a trailer for that one on TV and in the trailer this guy googles himself and finds nothing and then gets somehow swept up into a network of pro killers. Cool. I've seen that one now. I've got that one under my belt.

You're totally right about schools, I'd say. They make lit seem like work (and some of what they serve IS work, I mean in the case of repressed elitist shite like 'A Seperate Peace'...). Are you listening, schoolers? Stop teaching lit. Teach reading and then stop. Teach pop music after that. Give kids detention for reading books during pop music class. Grade kids on how well they decode symbols in Pink Floyd.

Maybe what I was working towards last night is that writers can do more, though.... Most readers -- they're open during the moments of reading: they've sat down, you have them for the moment. Can you keep them? I'm not very clear on this, but for me maybe it has to do w/ a voice/sensibility that establishes itself immediately, cutting against the tired come-ons even light readers have learned to recognize, and at the same time hitting home....

ps: thanks for commenting scott, good to hear from...

2008-07-18T06:00:00.000-04:00

ps: thanks for commenting scott, good to hear from you. i don't 'hate' deerhunter, they have some ok stuff, i just think they are severely overrated. it's become so popular among 'art' bands these days to write songs that have just one part repeating with a lot of layers, which is all great fine, but modern music for the most part is just repeating itself in this same fashion.

I also think writers are capable of developing fan...

2008-07-18T05:58:00.000-04:00

I also think writers are capable of developing fan bases that extend the way musicians do: look at David Foster Wallace or David Sedaris... these people sell out venues also. How is it that they are marketed? How is that different from smaller authors? Is it specifically only that the major houses have more money?? I don't think that's all of it, but I can't figure out exactly what it is.

I'm sticking to the idea that people have become lazy, books are work, and people don't like work even for art. I really believe that as a majority peg for at least a wide majority of the world. Instant culture.

I am all about brand identity in literary arts. I ...

2008-07-18T05:54:00.000-04:00

I am all about brand identity in literary arts. I think I get obsessed with things that have brand identity: there are certain presses of a certain aesthetic quality that I pretty much take what they do across the board. I think there is definitely still a need for more of this in literature, a more full package and aggressive marketing, an overall package that makes you want it, rather than an inert idea that must be found.

I think you are right on the aspect that music is social, but can't books be social in the same way? Music actually seems anti-social to me a lot of the time, in that when I go to a bar 90% of the time I can't talk to anyone because the music is so loud. For sure though I have had a lot of in-depth discussions about bands with people who if they had the same enthusiasm for books could talk just as endlessly about them.

Music is also easier to steal and distribute online, which I think is even more the culprit in this whole thing. Books you can't really steal except the old fashioned way, and there's nothing sexy about reading long books online or printing them out or ordering them and waiting. That's probably huge, and an aspect that can never really be remedied outside the web jrouansl, except partially by very short ebooks, but even that needs a lot of work. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Bear Parade is a model that should be replicated.

In the end, though, I really think the main point for me all of this is that early on the majority of people are not given the chance to like reading in the same way they like music or books. Books are presented to them as work, as 'learning' and not a source of fun, which is, as I said a little before, mainly I think because the wrong things are put to them too early. Reading 'A Separate Peace' and writing chapter summaries is never going to make anyone want to read anything ever again, unless it is nurtured in them in other ways. I was lucky that I was read to by my mother a very wide variety of stuff like Mark Twain, and is was not made as work. I think reform of school reading lists is just as important as making books nicer looking all the way around, but it's such a political idea that it will probably never take hold.

When I got slammed over by the ULA, 'King Wenclas' said I was dumb for saying kids should be read Peter Markus, he said they should be read comic books, and as much as I think comic books are fine, I was a comic junkie as a fat teen, I think for the younger ones it is more important to put them into things that are less visual and less like TV and give them more a chance to experience reading early on as something that can invoke your mind. Children like to have their minds invoked if you do it the right way, with the right child, it's just so many people these days don't take the time.

I'm rambling, its 6 AM i'm wide awake.

2. The other thought was about sharing.Would you ...

2008-07-18T03:36:00.000-04:00

2. The other thought was about sharing.

Would you like me to share?

People buy more independent music than they do independent lit because it's social. You can share it. YOu can listen to music w/ your mates.

Maybe this is a totally stupid observation, maybe just a partly stupid one.....

Connection. That's important to people. We're identity obssessed, and partly because of that atomized. The potential for connection w/ music is obvious. In the case of books and mags (and I'm ignoring the new reading/readers' websites in saying this), connection is old school: if it happens, it happens between the writer and you. That connection is not as easy and less immediate, as some people have been saying. But the writers I love -- I respond to some of them as quickly and viscerally as i do to music.... I don't think it's so foolish for writers to go for that kind of effect....

great stuff in this one, B.I have a couple insomni...

2008-07-18T03:19:00.000-04:00

great stuff in this one, B.

I have a couple insomniac thoughts, which i'll post separately maybe.... That way you'll get to the triple digits sooner.

1. The stuff about hipsters -- hmm.... It's a derogatory term, right? People don't like hipsters because the hipster ethic would seem to have to do w/ revolt, which has to do w/ awareness, but awareness isn't necessary to follow hipster styles and tastes....

Deerhunter, dude!

I actually really like Deerhunter. I have their song "River Card" in my head right now.

There's also the idea -- and maybe this is where you're coming from, B -- that people think more about their identities when they express enthusiasm for art than they do about whatever response the art creates in them. Hipsters obviously aren't unique in this. You don't just buy the shirt, right? You buy the picture of yourself in it. Getting back to the point -- reading, and why people don't do as much of it as they could: I guess I would say that it's pointless to rail against identity obsession. I love when people rail against it -- I love Lao Tzu, I love imagining his smelly pantaloons -- but it's all about identity, and I think that publishers have to accept and work w/ this: part of what you do when you put something out is to create a brand. That's yicky, for sure. Ideally writers and artists themselves would be kept innocent of it.

the sun was in my eyes

2008-07-16T14:26:00.000-04:00

the sun was in my eyes

collegiate

2008-07-16T02:45:00.000-04:00

collegiate

Hipsters gone wrong. Gone right. Henry Miller.Camu...

2008-07-15T20:38:00.000-04:00

Hipsters gone wrong. Gone right.
Henry Miller.
Camus.
Sartre.
Holy shit.
I went to college and like all of those authors.
Generalizations.

brandon,i remember the choad list. there was no s...

2008-07-13T16:12:00.000-04:00

brandon,

i remember the choad list. there was no sir mix a lot choad.

sir mix a lot is a fucking choad

2008-07-13T16:04:00.000-04:00

sir mix a lot is a fucking choad

i think there are people who looks like hipsters b...

2008-07-13T16:00:00.001-04:00

i think there are people who looks like hipsters because they ended up that way and there are the people who intensely focus on what it is

the second group is much larger

some people are just honest?

brandon capital b

SIR MIX A LOT

2008-07-13T16:00:00.000-04:00

SIR MIX A LOT

its okay i feel sure i am a hipsteri have consciou...

2008-07-13T15:52:00.000-04:00

its okay i feel sure i am a hipster

i have consciously chosen to be one

that felt hard to type

i like seattle i have never been to portland

i love you blake butler

'suddenly they and their friends are calling them ...

2008-07-13T15:46:00.001-04:00

'suddenly they and their friends are calling them a fashion designer'

haha yes this happens in atlanta too

how many atlanta girls with blogs of their name .com talking about hot indie shows after their fashion debut?

I have a small hatred for Seattle also but for ent...

2008-07-13T15:46:00.000-04:00

I have a small hatred for Seattle also but for entirely different reasons.

I am tired of people pissing on Portland and praising Seattle.

Fuck Seattle. You guys are lucky Sir Mix A Lot is from there.

Brandon,

No offense. If I saw you on the street I would immediately think "hipster".

I am quite sure you would think something deragatory if you saw me.

so it is okay.

my beard will defeat your hair.

fuck noah cicero.

seattle or more specifically capitol hill feels li...

2008-07-13T15:38:00.000-04:00

seattle or more specifically capitol hill feels like a 'hot bed' of hipster activity, a breeding zone,

things are happening here with hipsters, there is no one else here other than hipsters, i walk on the street and it is only people that are dressing like hipsters

mostly i have a feeling of openness and comfort around here, but there are levels in the culture, levels of dress code and attitude, i understand the layers of the scene

i don't know anyone, in seattle, not connected to this blog scene, in real life that likes the books i like or that is into books at all

but being 'into' books feels like something different to me than being 'into' music

i'm not sure, i feel 'into' books and i feel like i don't know anyone else that is into books

but i don't know if i know anyone that's really 'into' music here, this is getting confusing for me

a lot of people say they're 'into' fashion here, like they buy fashion magazines and get VICE, and then they get a sewing machine and get their friend who does bookings at chop suey to let them do a 'fashion show' where they get their female friends to do coke and put on the clothes they found at the goodwill outlet, cut up, sewed back together, ironic, and suddenly they and their friends are calling them a fashion designer

everyone likes one band or another, mostly it is the new rock shit, i don't know what the genre is called, just the new shit that's coming out but is distributed by smaller labels

i felt a small hate for seattle just now, but i like it, i like the scene, it is good in a way, it makes it easier to connect, for me,

books

hi gabe i am glad to hear that

2008-07-13T15:03:00.000-04:00

hi gabe i am glad to hear that

I like this post a lot. I can report that people r...

2008-07-13T10:11:00.000-04:00

I like this post a lot. I can report that people read more in Northampton, MA than they do in Los Angeles. They are also less aggressive drivers and more reserved. Correlation??

yeah I like michigan. grand rapids was my den for ...

2008-07-12T13:28:00.000-04:00

yeah I like michigan. grand rapids was my den for awhile. I'm in holland which is conservative and weird but I have managed to root out some good "people." and I like to watch the kids in their emo pants.

hey peter, things are going on in michigan, but it...

2008-07-12T12:24:00.000-04:00

hey peter, things are going on in michigan, but it's mostly isolated. i always imagine the other person in saginaw who reads faulkner or peter markus or blanchot or blake butler's blog. gina myers just moved back from NYC, so i think i mostly imagine her. even in the abyss of saginaw there are hipsters with slick designer messy hair, pre-dirtied, pre-ripped jeans, diy backpacks and cars plastered with 'radical' political stickers meant to provoke progressive thought and change people's thinking in much the same way as going to church, just in a different direction. my train of thought has left me behind. i don't know what i'm saying anymore. you're not alone, peter b., not totally. there's always the folks in ann arbor and grand rapids to feel good about.